Group Discussion > Jade Cong and Bi Theories
Interesting question, this evening I happen to be researching a jade bi disc with a spinning "prayer wheel" interior and I came across an interesting article which focuses on one theory about Bi but also briefly mentions the Kong as well. If you havent already stumbled across it, perhaps you will find it useful in your research..... " The Spindle Whorl as the Model of the Ritual Disk - ScholarSpace" 1994 by JM Green. I cant seem to get a link to attach here w/my tablet but you should be able to find the article with a general google search. Cheers!
Most Sincerely,
Erin-Marie Wallace
Most Sincerely,
Erin-Marie Wallace
March 17, 2015 | 
Erin Wallace
Erin Wallace
There's a major, important article on jade congs (ts'ungs) in an Arts of Asia issue for sale on hoffmanjade.com.
March 27, 2015 | Eric Hoffman
Eric Hoffman
congs and bi's...
i believe they are very ancient astronomical devices , and / or "primitive " copies by neolithic people , of power / communication devices they encountered via "visits" from alien beings ...
I think the bi disc / disc's were originally placed inside the cong , on a small shaft, like wheels on an axle , and manipulated to get the desired effects.
The "imperfect drillings " of many ancient congs are perhaps a deliberate defacement by the early makers , on instruction, so that they would not "work" inadvertantly , and cause untoward
"problems" ! ...
good luck with your research
i believe they are very ancient astronomical devices , and / or "primitive " copies by neolithic people , of power / communication devices they encountered via "visits" from alien beings ...
I think the bi disc / disc's were originally placed inside the cong , on a small shaft, like wheels on an axle , and manipulated to get the desired effects.
The "imperfect drillings " of many ancient congs are perhaps a deliberate defacement by the early makers , on instruction, so that they would not "work" inadvertantly , and cause untoward
"problems" ! ...
good luck with your research
June 2, 2015 | steve smith
steve smith
congs and bi's...
i believe they are very ancient astronomical devices , and / or "primitive " copies by neolithic people , of power / communication devices they encountered via "visits" from alien beings ...
I think the bi disc / disc's were originally placed inside the cong , on a small shaft, like wheels on an axle , and manipulated to get the desired effects.
The "imperfect drillings " of many ancient congs are perhaps a deliberate defacement by the early makers , on instruction, so that they would not "work" inadvertantly , and cause untoward
"problems" ! ...
good luck with your research
i believe they are very ancient astronomical devices , and / or "primitive " copies by neolithic people , of power / communication devices they encountered via "visits" from alien beings ...
I think the bi disc / disc's were originally placed inside the cong , on a small shaft, like wheels on an axle , and manipulated to get the desired effects.
The "imperfect drillings " of many ancient congs are perhaps a deliberate defacement by the early makers , on instruction, so that they would not "work" inadvertantly , and cause untoward
"problems" ! ...
good luck with your research
June 2, 2015 | steve smith
steve smith
Erin's post above actually alludes to the bi disk as a tool, and your alien view is a bit where Bernard Pietsch heads with his universal measurement scheme.
I think the traditional archaeologist would be looking for evidence based theories and whilst the alien view is fun it does lack that.
Though I am still collecting information, if we put the aliens aside, I am certain that you are right about the bi disc.
The evidence for that would be if discs of the same diameter as the congs were found together.
However I can see a genuine use case where the disks would be taken away from the jade cong to be used at sites remote to the jade cong, and over time they would not always be given back to the orginal cong owner, hence they would not be buried with the owner.
More on this when I have collected other views.
I think the traditional archaeologist would be looking for evidence based theories and whilst the alien view is fun it does lack that.
Though I am still collecting information, if we put the aliens aside, I am certain that you are right about the bi disc.
The evidence for that would be if discs of the same diameter as the congs were found together.
However I can see a genuine use case where the disks would be taken away from the jade cong to be used at sites remote to the jade cong, and over time they would not always be given back to the orginal cong owner, hence they would not be buried with the owner.
More on this when I have collected other views.
June 4, 2015 | Brittain Adams
Brittain Adams
Thanks for your reply Brittain , very interesting stuff .... , I think that the 'notched ' bi's , including the ones with 3 'cut outs ' on the outer rim are derived from the astronomical tool device most closely , whether they are working models or just conceptual representations of other more sophisticated devices , is of course just speculation at this time , ......., what is now clear is that they are indeed of very ancient origins.
The Hongshan culture , 3500 - 2000 BC was producing them .....along with the very strange 2 headed , and horned deity jade humanoid figurines , and the ritualistic fertility 'cult' images ...
Put all this together and we have odd ,humanoid visitors , impregnating native Neolithic people , manipulating the DNA to give desired characteristics , and demonstrating a few of their advanced toys ...ie cong and bi - like devices ....
This is evidence ,.... circumstantial ..., but strong !
The question is of course , who or what were these visitors ?
Cheers , and best wishes ,
Steve
The Hongshan culture , 3500 - 2000 BC was producing them .....along with the very strange 2 headed , and horned deity jade humanoid figurines , and the ritualistic fertility 'cult' images ...
Put all this together and we have odd ,humanoid visitors , impregnating native Neolithic people , manipulating the DNA to give desired characteristics , and demonstrating a few of their advanced toys ...ie cong and bi - like devices ....
This is evidence ,.... circumstantial ..., but strong !
The question is of course , who or what were these visitors ?
Cheers , and best wishes ,
Steve
June 11, 2015 | steve smith
steve smith
I showed the notched bi disks to an engineer, he was responsible for some years for the design and production of abrasive cutting disks, he said that they were cutting disks. Perception is coloured by our previous knowledge.
In this case though I was happy with his answer, for two reasons. First when I downloaded and printed Berthold Laufers excellent 1910 book : Jade a study in Chinese Archaeology and Religion.
I was struck by the fact that the Jade Bi with notches (p105 & p107) were described as an astronomical instruments, and yet previously on p43 he has described a cutting tool with the very same notches as a hatchet.
These people were sophisticated they needed to cut things most specifically bamboo.
With respect to the deity figures, this is an early example of pareidolia, the original cong's have clear use instructions, the later congs have a re-representation of the earlier usage instructions.
When I say “they” I mean the jade cong designers and makers had some understanding but not all the general populous who would often see the bamboo cong but rarely see the Jade Cong .
When the populous saw the Jade cong it is then they start to see a face as they may not understand the instructions and this in effect becomes a brand which, on even later congs is represented as a face.
The modern archaeologist looks back through time and this obfuscates the original simple clear iconography of the pure root congs and like the general populous at the time they see a face.
So my main issue at the moment is to illustrate why the early cong imagery never was a face.
I am beginning to respect these ancient people and even like the way they operate. I feel that their intellect far outstretched any organisms that may have arrived from space.
In this case though I was happy with his answer, for two reasons. First when I downloaded and printed Berthold Laufers excellent 1910 book : Jade a study in Chinese Archaeology and Religion.
I was struck by the fact that the Jade Bi with notches (p105 & p107) were described as an astronomical instruments, and yet previously on p43 he has described a cutting tool with the very same notches as a hatchet.
These people were sophisticated they needed to cut things most specifically bamboo.
With respect to the deity figures, this is an early example of pareidolia, the original cong's have clear use instructions, the later congs have a re-representation of the earlier usage instructions.
When I say “they” I mean the jade cong designers and makers had some understanding but not all the general populous who would often see the bamboo cong but rarely see the Jade Cong .
When the populous saw the Jade cong it is then they start to see a face as they may not understand the instructions and this in effect becomes a brand which, on even later congs is represented as a face.
The modern archaeologist looks back through time and this obfuscates the original simple clear iconography of the pure root congs and like the general populous at the time they see a face.
So my main issue at the moment is to illustrate why the early cong imagery never was a face.
I am beginning to respect these ancient people and even like the way they operate. I feel that their intellect far outstretched any organisms that may have arrived from space.
June 13, 2015 | Brittain Adams
Brittain Adams
Also I want to find how these theories evolved. Including the dominate ritual object idea, which I do not buy into at all.
My own view is very much that the earth sqaure heaven round came from the cong and bi, rather than them being a representation of of a previous idea. They had a clear and obvious use which got distorted, I guess for political reasons over time.
But I do not wish to elaborate on that until I have done more research, which involves finding other theories, to compare with my work.